Women and pay-for-play

If you can’t decide how you feel about pay-for-play after all the effort ESPN has put into the subject, then you simply aren’t good at making decisions.

Seemingly every commentator in the ESPN arsenal has weighed in on the subject, and the whole shebang is aggregated on one big pay-for-play page.

Of all that was written, I thought Pat Forde drew the best conclusions. In his column “Myth of Exploited, Impoverished Athletes,” Forde made the following points:

  • “Most revenue-producing football and basketball programs are largely populated with guys … who are unlikely to make a long-term living playing professional sports and understand the value of a cost-free education.”
  • “For those who feel compelled to monetize everything in college athletics, don’t forget to factor in the cost of four years of schooling. At a lot of places, that will run about $200,000. Most students emerge from college saddled with debt that will take years to pay off, but scholarship athletes are exempt from that burden.”
  • “Most college sports fans identify more with the school than the players. They root for the place they attended, or grew up with — the old front-of-the-jersey cliché. If that weren’t the case, minor-league football and basketball would be more popular.”

One of his most important observations, however, had to do with how women factor into the discussion.

Writing about options that would compensate basketball and football student-athletes while stiffing non-revenue athletes, including women, Forde wrote: “If Title IX doesn’t squash that notion, campus politics and simple fairness would.”

We do female student-athletes a disservice when we act as though the law is the only factor working on their behalf. Indeed, as Forde states so well, their interests are strongly underwritten by political and ethical considerations. To portray women as an inconvenient, and likely irresolvable, legal obstruction to paying male football and basketball players puts them on the defensive, a position they have occupied for most of the four decades since Title IX was made into law.

There are many reasons to tread carefully in the pay-for-play waters, and the treatment of non-revenue athletes – including women − certainly is a factor.

But as all of the conversations play out, everybody would do well to get their sequence straight: Think first about what’s fair, and then consider what’s legal.

Is vacation of wins enough?

Is requiring a program to vacate wins gained while using ineligible players an effective deterrent?

The Division I Committee on Infractions has used the penalty from time to time, and committee chair Dennis Thomas clearly believes the sanction has clout based on his reaction to how Kentucky counted vacated wins in honoring men’s basketball coach John Calipari for 500 victories.

Now comes the Ohio State football case and the program’s self-sanction of vacating wins earned involving ineligible student-athletes.

Based on reaction to the Kentucky matter (that is, the sentiment that people pay no attention to vacated outcomes and evidence that programs other than Kentucky disregarded orders to vacate victories), you might think the media reaction to the Ohio State’s self-penalty would be uniformly negative, but that’s not the case. Sports Illustrated’s Stewart Mandell thought the penalties seemed reasonable given the nature of the allegations at the moment.

Two commentators, though, have advanced a different approach. They want to require offending programs to pay train-riding dollars for games in which they used ineligible athletes.

Blogging for Forbes’ SportsMoney, Patrick Rishe proposed consideration of severe monetary sanctions – millions of dollars − for programs that knowingly violate the rules. “(V)acating revenues earned with ineligible players and instituting strict financial penalties for cheaters is the only way to truly show contrition,” Rishe wrote. “If the NCAA truly wants to institute change while scaring the bejesus out of Division I coaches and administrators, it needs to ‘man up’ and legislate specific and strict financial penalties that would surely cause a reduction in infractions.”

Rob Oller of the Columbus Dispatch took a similar approach. “College football is big business,” he wrote, “so treat it as such by throwing the checkbook at cheaters. It’s time to speak the language of athletic directors and presidents. You cheat, you pay. Packing such a powerful punch could be as restorative as it is punitive. The NCAA could divide the guilty school’s payment evenly across other conference schools. Talk about an effective deterrent.”

The list of possible penalties is provided in Division I Bylaw 19.5.2.2, and one of them (paragraph f) is “a financial penalty” − although that hasn’t been taken to mean anything on the order of the $10 to $15 million hit that Rishe described in his article. The most recent change to those penalties occurred in 2003, and the nature of the enterprise has changed remarkably in the intervening years.

Maybe it is time to see if the punishment fits the time.

In the news: June 20

A recent poll in Sporting News provided interesting insight into the attitudes of Division I Football Bowl Subdivision coaches.

The magazine (almost always a fun read, by the way) surveyed 40 coaches from the spectrum of FBS schools – from the mega-powers to the smaller programs.

A lot of the content focused on which programs run the most effective offenses or defenses, or which coaches are most admired by their peers. But the survey also probed a number of off-the-field hot topics.

To wit:

What would make recruiting more fair and ethical? The most common response (29 percent) was that the number of official visits should be reduced from five to three. A similar percentage also wanted an early signing period during the spring of the prospect’s junior year.

What percentage of FBS programs break recruiting rules? The highest response (35 percent) was that less than 20 percent – the most conservative choice offered – bent the rules to land recruits. The next most popular answer was 20 to 30 percent. In other words, most coaches believed most schools operate on the up-and-up in recruiting.

What is the most appropriate financial aid approach for FBS players? Fifty-four percent favored a full-cost-of-attendance approach, which is currently being explored. Another 46 percent said student-athletes should not receive any additional financial aid support. The third choice was “a salary commensurate with their skill level and importance to the program.” Nobody appears to have chosen that option.

Are there too many bowl games? The coaches said no. Sixty-eight percent were happy with the current 35-bowl arrangement. Only 22 percent wanted a playoff of some sort.

It’s all interesting stuff, but you’ll have to buy the magazine to get the full report. Sporting News doesn’t appear to offer its printed material online for free.

In the news: June 15

For the most part, the latest report on NCAA revenue and expense is neither good news nor bad.

The report, released Wednesday, notes that 22 Division I Football Bowl Subdivision programs are now considered financially self-sufficient. While some might see that as good news, others might see it as an ephemeral condition that will flow (and ebb) with conference media contracts. Besides, there’s nothing wrong with the idea that schools might underwrite their athletics programs to an appropriate degree.

If there is happy news in the report, it’s found in data that showed a reduction in the rate of spending in the 2009-10 fiscal year. The long-term numbers are still scary: Since 2004, when the report’s current methodology was adopted, expenses have increased 61.4 percent while revenue has climbed 54.6 percent. To use the vernacular of the economics crowd, that is not considered sustainable.

However, over the last two years, total generated revenues (ticket sales, media contracts, etc.) have grown by 15.9 percent while expenses have increased “only” 12.9 percent. Perhaps it’s the leading edge of a trend, but it doesn’t take highly developed analytical skills to wonder how long annual revenue growth of about 8 percent can last. And though expenses have slowed, they are still clearly far beyond the rate of inflation. But it is progress, and that’s good.

One other element: The report notes that the average “cost” of operating a Division I athletics program continues to be about $9 million. It’s an important number – one that probably hasn’t gotten the attention it deserves. It represents the average amount of institutional support provided to Division I programs, and it is generally consistent among the Division I subdivisions. For those who want to know how much cash a typical school needs to pony up to compete in Division I, $9 million annually is the answer.

In the news: June 10

With so many opinions out there about pay for play, we might as well have a virtual forum of the nation’s opinionators.

Here’s a Q&A taken from a number of recent columns and blogs:

DP: Should student-athletes be paid?

Josh Folck, Lehigh Valley Express-Times: These are supposed to be amateur athletes. I know it’s hard to grasp that with the constant reports of money being thrown around the college game. But if the NCAA starts issuing payments to athletes, we might as well throw out the term ‘student-athlete’ and replace it with ‘semi-pro.’ ”

DP: That’s an interesting perspective. What do others say?

John Harris, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review: Pay them.

DP: How much?

Harris: Who knows? But anything is better than what college athletes are currently receiving.

DP: But aren’t the student-athletes in revenue sports receiving an education? Isn’t that worth something?

Reg Henry: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: As much as enlightened coaches encourage education and promote graduation, it is a fact that playing college football is the accepted apprenticeship for a career in the National Football League. If universities were solely about education, they would be solely about education.

DP: Do we have anybody here from outside of Pennsylvania? Bob Kravitz from the Indianapolis Star – what do you think?

Bob Kravitz: As the father of one college student, with another heading to college after this coming year, I am sick and tired of hearing how college athletes get nothing. I’m tired of their sense of entitlement and I’m tired of the politics of victimization.

DP: So you think the NCAA is right to regulate in this area?

Kravitz: The NCAA has a scam going….Athletes should get more money beyond tuition and housing for their services.

DP: Sorry. I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth. But you are saying that the education the athletes receive has real value?

Kravitz: Those of you who have kids who don’t run 4.3 40s or throw a 90-mph fastball know how much things cost. You (and I) know how expensive it is − and Indiana state school tuition is going up more than 5 percent next semester. I’ve seen it here with my daughters’ friends, all of whom live in middle-class/upper-middle-class suburbs. Some of their really smart, gifted friends are not going to college because the parents have hit a rough patch. These scholarship athletes need to be reminded how blessed they are. Their parents won’t have to take out loans. They won’t leave school and still be paying off their own loans years after they graduate, as my wife did until she was 30 years old.

DP: I like where you’re going with this – that the educational benefit is real and that it matters. Jerome Solomon, what do you say to that?

Jerome Solomon, Houston Chronicle: We act as if college football and basketball are pure sports and, worse, as if they have something to do with education. We talk about graduation rates as if we really care or as if the three or four seniors on a basketball team and dozen or so seniors on a football team could actually hurt (or help) a university’s academic standing. Major college football and basketball programs are companies operating under the guise of being part of the education system.

DP: That seems harsh and perhaps a bit overstated. Isn’t it true that student-athletes graduate at a higher rate than various peer groups?

(Silence)

DP: I would like to hear some thoughts on why you all believe student-athletes are not paid. Jay Heater from the Idaho State-Journal – you look like you want to say something?

Jay Heater: College athletics is big business and those who run it reap the rewards. Coaches make millions each year. Those who run the NCAA and bowl games or the NCAA tournament are set for life. Apparently, there is plenty to go around. So why not let the athletes, who are the reason all those people pay admission prices to events, share?

DP: What do you mean by ‘share’?

Heater: I am just suggesting that we allow the free market to determine pay. And, oh, by the way, this money is not coming from any university. No, universities have enough budget problems. Not a dime other than tuition, books and normal living expenses. In the new system, all college athletes would be allowed to take whatever handout from the public they could get. If somebody is willing to donate a SUV to carry an athlete’s bling, so be it.

DP: Jay, that’s an interesting thought. While your approach might solve some problems, might it not create others?

Heater: Sure, there would be the mega-programs flashing big bucks for some of the top stars. Eventually, though, the market would determine the price, and I would imagine it would be far lower than what we might imagine. Those willing to compete would develop a set plan. Those unwilling to compete could drop into the NCAA Division IA Less Corrupt.

DP: Let’s put that idea in the parking lot for the moment. If we assume that compensation needs to be conducted within the university structure, what are the concerns? Kristi Dosh, you write for Forbes and produce a daily blog on college athletics finances. Do you think institutionally based compensation works?

Kristi Dosh: Where is the money going to come from?

DP: What do you mean?

Dosh:  If you’re unaware, the NCAA released data showing that only 14 programs are turning a profit without having to rely on institutional support (like student fees or a check cut directly from the university coffers).

DP: Right, I’m familiar with the study. The annual update is coming out soon, and it will contain some interesting information.  Are there issues out there besides the general lack of money?

Dosh: Here is the second big problem. Actually, it’s probably the first, but I chose to focus on the issue of finances first. You cannot pay players without invoking Title IX. Safely assuming that any pay-for-play plan would include paying male football and basketball players, you run into huge issues with federal law.

DP: Any other thoughts from the rest of you?

Bob Knight, ESPN: This NCAA that we’re currently involved with is so far out of touch with the integrity of the sport that it’s just amazing.

DP: Coach, it’s always good to hear from you. We’ll wrap it up on that note. Thanks to all of you for your participation.

In the news: June 7

Division II is having quite a year – in Division I.

The most recent success is that of the Dallas Baptist baseball team, which advanced Monday to the super-regional round of the Division I Baseball Championship. The main part of the Patriots program resides in Division II with the Heartland Conference.

It’s a big accomplishment for Dallas Baptist, but there’s room for improvement. Just ask Augusta State, which just won its second straight Division I Men’s Golf Championship, or Minnesota Duluth, which recently added a Division I Men’s Ice Hockey Championship to its five Division I women’s titles. Augusta State is a member of Division II’s Peach Belt Conference in everything but golf while Minnesota Duluth resides in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference in all but hockey.

How is this possible?

NCAA rules allow Division II and III programs to classify one men’s and one women’s sport (other than football or basketball) at the Division I level, provided they were already sponsoring them as of 2010-11. The sports that are selected are considered Division I in every sense. They must adhere to the entire range of Division I rules, all the way from coaching-staff limitations to recruiting to financial aid limits to playing and practice seasons.

Division III has a wrinkle. While multidivison classification is also possible there, programs that were not already giving athletically-related financial aid in 2004 have not been permitted to petition to award it since. So, a few Division III institutions offer aid for their Division I teams (and in some cases are highly successful). However, it’s also common for Division III teams competing in I not to offer aid.

Does it work the other way?

No. If an institution classifies its overall program in Division I, all teams must compete at that level. The rules once permitted multidivision classification from Division I to II or III (Dayton won two Division III Football Championships in the 1980s), but the practice was discontinued at the 1994 Convention.

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Note: I added a clarification after this was originally posted that through Proposal No. 2010-11, Division I halted any new multidivision classification. Programs that were using the option as of 2010-11 were grandfathered in. Here’s the relevant language from Bylaw 20.4.1: “A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year.  Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any following academic year.”

In the news: June 1

The choice of NCAA membership classification has always been based, more or less, on institutional choice. Is it time to consider something different?

The question becomes more important as the question of full cost of attendance begins to fill the window for Division I members.

Of course, the cost-of-attendance discussion is at the earliest stages, and it’s far from certain that the Division I membership will take the plunge.

A number of high-powered Division I administrators have been talking the concept up, saying it may be time to think more about benefiting student-athletes at major programs and less about keeping the playing field level. Southeastern Conference Commissioner Mike Slive made that point in a conversation with CBSSports.com’s Tony Barhart that was posted Monday.

“For the longest time,” Slive said, “our focus on intercollegiate athletics has been to try and maintain a ‘level playing field’ for all the institutions involved. But now I believe we need to discuss whether or not those of us with the resources should be able to provide the needed help to athletes when the cost of attendance exceeds the actual value of the scholarship. Academic scholarships have for a long time provided this kind of support based on the need and based on the location of the campus. At this point we don’t know if it’s workable but you can’t make that decision if you don’t sit down and talk about it. So it’s time for us to a least talk about it.”

The decision ultimately belongs with the membership, so we’ll all track together as the issue unfolds over the next year.

If this does shake out as “permissive legislation,” the conventional wisdom is that it would widen the gap between the largest programs and the others. There’s nothing deplorable or admirable about that. It’s just the way things are.

I do worry, however, about how far schools on the margin will act in their efforts to be perceived as elite. Is there a point at which new criteria should be introduced into the mix to protect them from themselves? Or should everybody be comfortable with a more Darwinian approach?

I would be interested in whether elements like undergraduate enrollment and permanent endowments (there would have to be multiple standards) could factor into elite-level classification. Maybe enrollment and endowment aren’t the correct gauges − I am but a humble blogger, after all − but surely there are some non-athletic markers that could help define the institutions that are suited to sponsor mega-programs.

Is it likely to happen? Probably not. The biggest programs likely can get what they want without such a drastic move, and intermediate programs likely wouldn’t want their access to the “top” cut off.

Should something like this be discussed? I wish somebody would take the concept on a spin. The perceived benefits of large-scale athletics success exceed reality in too many places. Maybe it’s time to look at a new way.

In the news: May 23

A story in this morning’s Indianapolis Star called attention to the widening gap between educationally based athletics and AAU competition.

Writer Kyle Neddenriep posed an informal poll to participants at an AAU qualifying tournament. The question was:  “Do you prefer AAU or high school basketball?” Of the 25 players of all ages questioned (including four current college players), Neddenriep reported that 19 picked AAU. Most of the athletes cited the ephemeral benefits of exposure, travel, freedom and style of play.

How you view this issue depends, of course, on how what you want from basketball. If the purpose is creating better basketball through a highly selective, exclusive process, then elite competition has its advantages. But if the objective is to follow through on the premise that education and athletics are effective complements, then somebody needs to pay more attention to nurturing high school programs.

High school administrators are rightly concerned about all of this. NFHS Executive Director Bob Gardner and NFHS President Nina Van Erk wrote the following in the May issue of High School Today

“The popular theory by many parents is that by involving their children in out-of-school club programs, the coaching and preparation will be better than what they receive through the high school team and will greatly enhance the chance for a full-ride athletic scholarship for their son or daughter. We certainly acknowledge that there are a few high school athletes who may benefit from a year-round focus on one sport because they have the skills and talent to play at the next level; however, among the 7.6 million participants in high school sports, these individuals are few and far between.

“Consider these numbers: About 3 percent of high school basketball players, 5 percent of high school soccer players, 5 percent of high school football players and 6 percent of high school baseball players will play at the NCAA level. From the high school to the professional level, the odds are better at winning the lottery. For example, less than one-half of one percent of high school basketball players will be drafted by an NBA team.

“Many families incur huge debts trying to chase college scholarships for their kids – money they wish they had back for college tuition when the scholarship offers fail to materialize. Through research of articles on this subject, it is common for families to spend $5,000 to $10,000 a year funding their child’s athletic pursuits in out-of-school programs. Three years ago, the College Board estimated the average annual cost at a four-year public school was about $6,200 – very similar to the annual expenditures by many families for club sports.

“In some cases, participation in an out-of-school program in a particular sport could be beneficial, but often athletes (and their parents) are lured into giving up other sports in the high school setting – thereby forfeiting the educational component – to focus solely on one sport and to chase the dream of a college scholarship.”

Monday’s article in the Indianapolis Star did not treat high school sports and elite training/competition as an either-or proposition. Instead, the writer compared and contrasted the two approaches.

But high school athletics are threatened. Think about the pay-for-play debate that rages at the college level and then consider that many high school participants must pay to play through more frequent and ever-increasing fees.  Between the lack of public support and the tug that comes from elite programs, high school athletics programs could cease to exist somewhere down the line.

If you believe in educationally based athletics – as you should if you support college sports – that would be a tragedy of the highest order.

In the news: May 20

The outburst of opinions from high-profile administrators about adjusting Division I financial aid limitations has the news wires crackling.

So, what are we talking about, based on remarks made over the last several days?

Britton Banowsky, Conference USA: “Universities justify spending tens of millions of dollars on coaches’ compensation, with a seemingly insatiable appetite for more growth. At the same time, a small fraction of that amount is spent on all scholarships for all student-athletes. Unless the student-athletes in the revenue-producing sports get more of the pie, the model will eventually break down. It seems it is only a matter of time.”

John Swofford, Atlantic Coast Conference: “Could it be limited to only revenue-producing sports? I’m not sure we would want to do it. And from a legal standpoint, how does it mesh with Title IX? I think we’re a ways away from getting there. But it’s a student-athlete welfare issue. It’s a way to enhance the student-athlete experience and put a dent in some of the financial strains that some athletes have.”

Gene Smith, Ohio State AD: “The reality is that schools can afford it more than you realize…Just look at some of the television contracts that have come out recently.”

Mike Slive, Southeastern Conference: “I have long thought that we should revisit the current limitations on athletic scholarships by expanding to the full cost of attendance.  This is a student-welfare issue that deserves full consideration at both the conference and national level. I look forward to that discussion.”

Jon Steinbrecher, Mid-American Conference: “The first question to answer is − is this the right thing to do? That is a worthwhile debate. As an association the NCAA strives to differentiate intercollegiate athletics from professional sports, and it is important that we continue to maintain the collegiate model.”

Tommy Bell, Indiana University-Purdue University, Fort Wayne AD: “There is a small percentage of the NCAA membership that has the financial wherewithal to even consider that. The overwhelming number of schools are not in a position to do that.”

Jim Delany, Big Ten commissioner: “There are some conferences and some institutions that have higher resources than others …. Forty years ago, you had a scholarship plus $15-a-month laundry money. Today, you have the same scholarship, but not with the $15 laundry money. How do we get back more toward the collegiate model and a regulatory system that is based more on student-athlete welfare than it is on a level playing field, where everything is about a cost issue and whether or not everybody can afford to do everything everybody else can do?”

Troy Dannen, Northern Iowa AD: “Television has already put certain leagues in a position where they’re playing a game that no one else can play. The cost-of-living component issue is a legitimate problem, and the NCAA is on-record saying that. I don’t think that’s any secret. I would much prefer the NCAA look for a way that all institutions across the board can address the problem as one.”

You don’t have to be Hercule Poirot to see that some of these men are more enthusiastic than others about the prospect of this change. Larger financial aid packages likely would broaden the competitive gap between the biggest programs and those that are struggling to make ends meet now. As a number of commentators noted, administrators from Division I’s “equity conferences” do not appear to be losing much sleep over that concern.

Dannen, the Northern Iowa AD, correctly alluded to the fact that discussions about full cost of attendance are not new. The late NCAA President Myles Brand had a dalliance with the topic, and Mark Emmert has been all about discussing the idea almost from the day he assumed the NCAA presidency last September.

Where this goes next isn’t exactly clear. As Delany said, there’s “a long way between the talk and the action.” Presumably, there’s going to be a lot of chatter at conference and NCAA meetings over the next several months.

Finally, I thought columnist Drew Sharp offered an effective contrarian view on the subject. Writing in Friday’s Detroit Free Press, he cautioned that what’s being discussed likely would not sanitize big-time sports: “The fallacy in paying scholarship athletes a regular stipend is the delusion that such practices would reduce the covert dirty dealing that too often turns big-time college sports into a prime-time-televised pig sty,” he wrote. “Even if you pay them all you want up front and in the open, it won’t stop some players from demanding even more from scurrilous boosters and sports agent ‘runners.’ ”

In the news: May 16

Something that has never happened before will happen this summer.

There will a change in the leadership of the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics when Executive Director Mike Cleary retires and is replaced by current Deputy Executive Director Bob Vecchione.

What makes it unique is that NACDA’s executive director has never before been replaced. Cleary is the original model, having been in the role for 45 years. We’ll offer a well-deserved profile on Cleary in the summer issue of NCAA Champion magazine.

In the meantime, I caught up with Vecchione and asked him a few questions about NACDA:

Q: Where do you see NACDA going over the next several years?

A: We’ve done a tremendous job of overseeing the growth of the associations that we have under our umbrella (NACDA currently manages 12 associations, in addition to its core membership). Now we’re going to focus on managing each of those associations.  For instance, the compliance association − we need to do a better job of assisting them in growing their market and educating their members. Seeing as NACDA’s basic mission is education, we want to assist in the education of all the various components that are contained under our umbrella.

Q: Sometimes, it might look to outsiders that NACDA and the NCAA are rivals in some ways. How do you see the relationship?

A:  I don’t see them as rivals at all. I’ve been on both sides of the desk. I’ve been a corporate sponsor back in my National Car Rental days, and I ran the Final Four locally back in 1992, so I’ve seen the NCAA and NACDA from both sides. There are so many similarities; there are so many things we can and will be doing together.  I should mention that Mark Emmert’s inaugural appearance as NCAA president was at the NACDA convention. We work real hard to develop these relationships, and the NCAA has been a fantastic partner.

Q: Where do athletics directors fit in the college sports universe nowadays?

A: They say the athletics department is the front porch of the university, and the athletics director is in the No. 1 rocking chair on that porch. The AD is a vital role, and as you see in the role of the evolution of the athletics director. There are ADs who carry the role of vice president of a university.  Gene Smith has it at Ohio State, I know Jimmy Phillips has it at Northwestern, Kevin White has it at Duke. There are a lot of ADs who are now gaining in that recognition and responsibility with that vice presidential title. And that means that university presidents are also seeing the importance of the athletics departments on campus, and that’s going to continue to grow.

Q: What are the biggest priorities?

A: It’s all based on education, what happens with the media. There are so many moving pieces out there right, especially the media rights piece. The compliance piece is such a big part of the equation. But that’s the beauty of our business. It’s ever-changing. That’s why the educational component, which we focus on, is so important because the more things change, the more you need to be constantly aware and constantly educated as to what is happening out there and, more importantly, what are your counterparts doing to overcome the obstacles and take advantage of all the opportunities. And that’s what we provide.

Q: Does NACDA have a role to play with how college sports are portrayed?

A: No one is satisfied with how the enterprise is portrayed in the media. You can’t control what other people say about you. But just look in our daily lives. Look how many hours our athletics departments are putting into community service. Nobody says anything about that, and that’s just wrong. What about all the great things that the student-athletes at the University of Alabama are doing in the community? Is anybody writing about that? All you can do is work in your own community, and if the stories come out of it, that’s great. You have to work from an inside-out perspective. By the way, Bob Williams and the NCAA put together a media summit of conference media people earlier this year and brought them to Indianapolis, and that was a great, great first step. We have to continue doing those things because we have a tremendous story to tell.

Q: The academic advisors association will join NACDA next year, and CoSIDA also plans to meet jointly with NACDA in the future. Will other organizations be joining NACDA?

A: We take it case by case. We have our base foundation set up right now. If there are other groups down the road, we will definitely analyze it and look at it. But the basic intent was to build an organization that is based on the creation of an association for each business unit that reports into the director of athletics, and we’re well on our way to accomplishing that goal. We don’t have too many other silos to fill. For the time being, we’re very happy where we are. We’re just going to enhance the educational components within each of those silos and, down the road, if additional opportunities present themselves, we’ll sit down with our leaders and see if that’s the direction they want to take. But for the time being, we’re very happy. Plus, if we added any more associations, I think the staff would probably assassinate me.

Q: Describe how Mike Cleary adapted over such a long career.

A: The industry has gotten a lot younger, if you will. But Mike has been flexible with that evolution, primarily because he’s raised nine kids. You don’t raise nine kids and 21 grandkids – all live within a five-mile radius −  and not be part of that evolution. So it’s a perfect marriage of the growth of the association and the growth and evolution of his family. There’s nothing he hasn’t seen. His management style is based honesty and integrity. He’ll support you 1,000 percent. He’s just been a tremendous role model, a tremendous mentor, and I’ve learned a great deal from him.

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